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Trying to Make My Computer More Secure

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SherryStuart
 Post subject: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:15 pm 
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I have been using Win XP, and it comes with a firewall, which I have never really done anything with.

I recently found this overview of firewalls on ZoneAlarms site:

www .zone alarm .com/ security/en- us/firewall /good-firewall.htm

They clearly know there stuff, so I am thinking about getting their free firewall.
I am feeling like their products will really heighten security.

I also heard that if you are using free anti-virus software, that it is better to use the free Zonealarm firewall then the WinXP firewall.

Have any of you used it? Do any of you know anything about zonealarm's products? I am wanting to try it out, but would like some feedback first...

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mikeymike
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Stick with the Windows firewall is my advice. It's not the firewall that needs to be more secure.

In terms of inbound traffic, what most people really want/need is something that stops direct TCP/IP stack attacks, as well as attacks on ports that ought to be closed but aren't (Windows file-sharing services for example). The Windows firewall does this unless you start enabling Windows file-sharing through the firewall, and if you're that stupid, another piece of firewall software isn't going to help you much.

In terms of outbound traffic, if something dodgy is already on your machine, then a firewall is only closing the stable doors after the horse has bolted. That is, if the malware hasn't already edited/disabled the firewall (which, if that is its intention - to send spam e-mail for example, then it has probably already done that). Otherwise, the Windows firewall (or any other firewall) will ask you whether you want a program to be listening on a public port the entire time it is running, which isn't particularly useful, except if you're on the ball but something you've intentionally installed is doing something you weren't aware of (due to the install program being compromised already, for example).

Software that is more complicated than the intention of the Windows firewall is just more likely to have bugs which could let someone have full privs on your computer, which is worse than if you didn't have firewall software in the first place. I was quite nervous of the Windows firewall when it was first released for precisely this reason, but its security (vulnerability) record is actually pretty damn good (low - I'm not sure there's even been a vulnerability reported in it) to date.

Any security product telling you that the firewall is oh-so-important is purely trying to sell you something. It'll pop up loads of crap to make you feel insecure and that it is somehow keeping you safe, and that you really ought to pay the subscription next year.

To make things worse, the configurations of third-party software firewalls for Windows are so poorly designed that they would baffle a security professional, let alone the average user. A firewall configuration should only have 'allow traffic' entries, because the rest should be denied by default.

Bottom line - Software firewalls are a great big waste of money. Stick with the Windows firewall. It's a small job that needs doing, and that's it.

- edit - reading that URL, I had to laugh:

Quote:
Keeps Hackers Out

An inbound firewall prevents Internet attacks such as hackers from coming into your computer. Any suspicious or unauthorized communications are filtered by the firewall. However, if these threats get through your firewall your personal data could then be transmitted back out to the hacker. To catch these thieves on their way out your firewall must be capable of automatically blocking unauthorized outbound communications - “outbound protection”.


Ah, I see, these would be those hackers who got into your machine already, yes? What stops them from opening an outbound connection with an allowed process? That is, assuming they didn't disable/edit the firewall config already, or the user hasn't already allowed <insert seemingly innocuous process name here> through already when the firewall software bugged them for the fifth time this week.

Quote:
Keeps your Sensitive Data In

Some firewalls don’t have what’s called “outbound protection”. That means they can’t control information that leaves your computer. This is risky, since hackers have ways around inbound firewalls. The ZoneAlarm outbound protection references our constantly updated database of trusted programs and program behavior—so the ZoneAlarm firewall can make security decisions safely and automatically.


I'm not sure I've ever heard of a firewall picking up "sensitive data" being sent out. How many ways can people think of to obscure the content of outbound data packets, even if firewall software tried to detect this? All the firewall software I know keeps a list of allowed/denied process names/port numbers, and has a few tick boxes to block known TCP/IP attacks, and that's about it.

Quote:
Outsmarts Advanced Hackers

At ZoneAlarm, we added outbound protection and then went beyond that to create the equivalent of guards who are trained to spot and stop suspicious behavior. We call this the OSFirewall, because it goes where dangerous programs go—to the operating system level. It monitors program installation, registry and file changes, keyboard and mouse code control, and over 40 other potentially dangerous behaviors.


I tend to avoid security software that tries to do anything "really clever" because when it malfunctions, it'll probably take your computer's Internet connectivity (and judging by what this claims to protect you with) keyboard and mouse control with it. Learnt from experience.

Quote:
Doesn't Bother You

Most firewalls with outbound protection generate a lot of "noise" -alerts asking you for input. Over the years we have developed ways to make our firewall as smart and quiet as possible. Our community-powered DefenseNet system constantly tracks the safety of millions of programs in real-time. Today, even the ZoneAlarm Free Firewall includes this automated program security, making it the quietest Free Firewall in the industry.


Considering that ZA was one of the most tedious "alerts asking you for input" firewalls, I'm a bit surprised they're saying this. It's gone from the worst to the best?

Anyway. I would look into finding the most secure web browser and extra add-ons/plug-ins that help restrict unnecessary JavaScript/Flash/other plug-in activity. Web site access is by far the biggest risk these days - PDF exploits, Flash exploits, Java exploits, JavaScript. These are the tools of the black hat trade these days.

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Scorpiuscat
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:16 pm 
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By the way, if your computer is connected to a decent router, you pretty much are protected anyway.

If you have a router with network address translation, or NAT, enabled (most consumer grade routers do, by default) then there's no need to enable the Windows firewall. In fact, you can tell the new Windows Security Center that you'll manage your firewall yourself or you can leave it on. I have not seen it cause any problems when running with a NAT enabled router and Windows Firewall.

Regardless, like mikeymike said, these things only protect you from incoming attacks. If you do something that lets something malicious in, your kind of doomed at that point.

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CraigV
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:04 pm 
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Image



OR - Just take it with you everywhere you go



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Cybermonk
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:07 pm 
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Gwad help us if that laptop has a webcam!

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mikeymike
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:58 am 
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NAT - there are attacks that convince quite a number of routers to forward packets to an internal source because the routers think that the packets are coming from the local network. Given that home networks are on average becoming more advanced (more local services), it is inevitable that there will be an automated/organised attack on these services at some point (if it hasn't happened already). If you think of all the vulnerabilities that get found and rated as 'moderate' because it's a LAN-only attack on default configuration, there's going to be an ugly day for some people, most likely ones that use a popular ISP-supplied router.

Having said that, I set up Windows file-sharing services for customers on their local network with Internet connectivity, though I usually warn them that with the enabling of any service, the potential for vulnerability increases.

There is already malware out there that will try to access the router based on default passwords and change settings (usually the DNS settings). Those attacks will become more sophisticated.

Regarding what I previously said about attacks through websites - I've been using NoScript with Firefox for a number of years now, though it's not for the average user. I sometimes install AdBlockPlus on customers' machines if they've had trouble before.

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The Doctor
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Using a router combined with the Windows firewall has worked well for me. If you need more than that you've either really pissed someone off that knows their stuff or been into something you shouldn't be into. In that case you probably should be looking into a good virus scanner rather than a firewall or just disconnect completely because there's no hope for you. :P

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mikeymike
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:50 am 
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The Doctor wrote:
Using a router combined with the Windows firewall has worked well for me. If you need more than that you've either really pissed someone off that knows their stuff or been into something you shouldn't be into. In that case you probably should be looking into a good virus scanner rather than a firewall or just disconnect completely because there's no hope for you. :P


I agree with this mostly, though one thing to bear in mind is that I had a Windows 2000 setup for about seven years with a public IP address and no firewall. I just started by closing all unnecessary ports. I didn't have any problems with it.

As for AV, I use Avast free antivirus these days (www.avast.com). It's more resource-efficient than anything else I've seen in action.

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Scorpiuscat
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:29 pm 
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I put Avast on all computers I build or work on for people.

I have not seen any complaints so far.

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BULL
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:58 am 
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Hmmm, interesting post....


:-k



Am I just to much of a skeptic?

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mikeymike
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:38 pm 
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?

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BULL
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:14 pm 
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My cynicism makes me think this is a shill post...

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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Yup,.. my cynicism is flashing red and making the assumption that Sherry was lulling us into a false sense of security with her previous posts only to leave this link in the forum.
Doubt she was counting on people bashing the software though! :lol:

It did turn into a cool discussion on safety measures.

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mikeymike
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Timelord wrote:
Yup,.. my cynicism is flashing red and making the assumption that Sherry was lulling us into a false sense of security with her previous posts only to leave this link in the forum.
Doubt she was counting on people bashing the software though! :lol:


If so, I guess the guys at ZA must love me right now :D

At this point I'm wondering which company I have greater contempt for, McAfee or ZA :) Or HSBC for pushing McAfee as a security solution for its customers...

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Cybermonk
 Post subject: Re: Trying to Make My Computer More Secure
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Timelord wrote:
Sherry was lulling us into a false sense of security with her previous posts only to leave this link in the forum.


T'is a shame then that some admin made her link very Google unfriendly. :twisted:

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