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2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion

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Scorpiuscat
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:20 am 
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fritzthefox wrote:
Instead of locking Dave outside the ship, Hal should've just let him starve to death playing World of Warcraft.



LOL....or HAL could have said "Sorry Dave, but I performed an illegal operation and need to shut down now"

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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:04 pm 
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fritzthefox wrote:
Instead of locking Dave outside the ship, Hal should've just let him starve to death playing World of Warcraft.


:lol: :lol: That is hilarious! Maybe that will be in a remake. :lol:

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Cybermonk
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:48 pm 
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I just dug out my copy of "Lost Worlds...." and re-read some of the discarded chapters and I think I'm seeing a hint at something here.

In one passage, Clarke talks a lot about how most animals across the cosmos rely strictly on instinct. A rare few stumble onto true intelligence, sentience -- self-awareness. For most of them, they shake off the haze of instinct, see their own looming death and the spark immediately goes out. That's why the alien race decides to give these bright apes a little nudge. So the spark of self-awareness catches fire in Moon-Watcher (I remembered the name wrong earlier) and what is the first thing he does.... He kills.

Now think about HAL. He's a computer -- following a program -- just like an animal operating on instinct. But now he's become sentient. Become more than the sum of his programming. And so what does he do? He sees his own looming death and he kills. Just like Moon-Watcher did.

I think that is why Clarke chose to "save" HAL at the end of 2010 by having him merge into the Monolith's consciousness as Bowman had. HAL had made the same "leap" as Moon-Watcher did so from the alien's point of view he was just as worthy.

Here's a very interesting presentation of what someone else thinks Kubrick was up to.
http://www.kubrick2001.com/

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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:11 pm 
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OK then, this just hit me, don't know why I suddenly felt the need to kick start the thread a little, but anyway....

Lets move beyond HAL and go to what was "in" the monolith. A warp? A Stargate? What were we seeing? The old man, the baby? As the kids say on the text messages.. WTF?

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BULL
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:35 pm 
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OMFG...


I just watched both 2001 and 2010...

Regarding 2001.... warning, do not enter, very very negative comments within....

Click to Read Spoiler:
Jesus H. Christ, I want my 2 1/2 hours back, I am a dumber person for having watched that. Kubrick was on @#$%^&* drugs and should be sued for deteriorating the minds of the viewing public.

Whatever romanticism that is associated with this movie from my childhood is unfounded and I'm embarrassed to have expressed anything remotely close to it.

The only piece of this movie that ever gets referenced in the general public is the roughly 20 minutes or so where HAL goes off the deep end and Dave goes outside the ship. "Open the pod-bay doors HAL" The rest of the movie was a complete waste of film and all copies should be burned.

Seriously, what a 1960's drug trip this is...



2010, this is the movie I thought was 2001 and I can see where I made the swap in my mind with the beginning of the movie referencing so much of the first. Not bad and nice to watch a movie that didn't require 10 pounds of pot injected straight into my spinal cord. My earlier post regarding the Monolith was actually in reference to this movie. My apologies for the error.

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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:41 pm 
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You know, I have to agree with Bull to a point. I DO think that 2001 is a bit over rated. I think the camera work and visual effects are by far the best of the era bar none, and I DO think the core story is fascinating and interesting, but I have to admit I think the film on the whole is a bit long winded and a little full of itself.
The fact that no one has posted a thing about the ending serves up the point that it really didn't know what the h-e-double hockey sticks it was trying to say and no one else did either.

Flip side of the coin is 2010. Could have used a little more substance over all, IMHO.

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BULL
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:51 pm 
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:smt046



STANLEY KUBRICK 2001: A Space Odyssey in 2 m and 01 sec





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Scorpiuscat
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:14 pm 
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Timelord wrote:
Lets move beyond HAL and go to what was "in" the monolith. A warp? A Stargate? What were we seeing? The old man, the baby? As the kids say on the text messages.. WTF?


This is what I think:


Click to Read Spoiler:
I think Dave entered the Monolith, it (The Monolith) soon realized that what Dave was seeing and experiencing was too much for his mind. So the Monolith created (the best that it could) a reality that Dave's mind could deal with. At that point the Monolith "aged" Dave to bring Dave to the next level of evolution. Thus when Dave's body dies, his spirit remains (The symbolism of the Glass of Wine breaking, but the Wine remaining means to me that the body dies, but the spirit remains) as the next evolutionary step for Mankind....The Starchild.

We then get to see the new Dave/Starchild in what I have always assumed was a kind of representation of Man's new found Childhood in space after becoming Master of his Homeworld.

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shāf
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:00 pm 
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Works for me, Scorpiuscat! Is it a coincidence that the writers of Stargate: SG-1 seemed to develop the concept of ascension for the Ancients (and temporarily, Daniel Jackson)? Hmmm. :-k

I also agree with Timelord, that the film seems to take itself too seriously, while 2010 needed a bit more gravitas.


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Cybermonk
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:12 pm 
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Although I don't find 2001 to be, as one of my friends calls it, "pretentious", I do think the film has some troubles.

The film sums up three million years of human history and the audience feels like they have lived though every single minute! Filmmaking had a different style forty years ago. Audiences were more patient to let a story develop. Waited with long scenes to see how things played out. But even by those standards this film is S L O W.

Also, I must admit, the first time I saw the Star Gate sequence all I could think of was "Huh?"
It wasn't until several years later, after I had borrowed the novel from my brother-in-law, that the film's ending made sense.
If 2001 is a masterpiece, it is a flawed masterpiece because one shouldn't *need* the "Cliff notes" to make sense of what the filmmaker was trying to convey. I don't think that takes anything away from Kubrick's work as a work of art - we often respect even the flawed works of the masters.

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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:44 am 
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It is interesting that the film did not open up a rash of "intelligent" sci-fi films. Maybe it was the time. Maybe it was the money that was involved. Sci-fi didn't really get a kick in the pants for another 10 years and then it was back to cowboys and Indians in space.

It could be that the "masterpiece" was not recognized as such until much later and certainly not by the public in general. If it had come out today i think we would have seen a "smart" sci-fi film from every studio.

Years later the influence it has on modern films is obvious. I can't even count how many homicidal computers and/or mysterious artifact movies there has been since. Some make sense, some not so much.

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shāf
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:51 am 
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Speaking of "Intelligent sci-fi" versus space cowboy adventures, I always felt that 1972's Silent Running deserved a lot more love and a few good copies.

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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:05 pm 
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I'd need to see it again. It has been many years since I tried to watch it and I couldn't get through it. It is one that I'd like to see again with older eyes.

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fritzthefox
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Timelord wrote:
It is interesting that the film did not open up a rash of "intelligent" sci-fi films.


I think the studios (probably correctly) interpreted the popularity of 2001 as having to do more with stunning visuals than with intelligent storytelling. At least, that is the philosophy they continue to embrace....eye candy at the expense of story. (Ironic, given that a good story is often cheaper than a good visual.)

The success 2001 enjoyed when it was released was due to the happy confluence of its hallucinagenic special effects and the teeming throng of red-eyed baby-boomers, who kept it alive at the theater by word of mouth. Today it probably would have been over-hyped and a box office failure, only to develop a cult following on DVD.


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Timelord
 Post subject: Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey - The Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Excellent point.
Yes, sadly, today's movies are mostly about style over substance. Few are a good mix of both.

Though from what i have heard, Watchmen may be an exception. I have not had a chance to partake myself.

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